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Wenn ein Wagen den Moraltest nicht schafft und disorganisiert wird verliert er einen Stärkepunkt.
Verliert er auch seine Order?
der verlust von ordern ist ja neben dem würfel weniger im kampf die entscheidende eigenschaft von "disorganizied".
warum sollte ein wagen die nicht verlieren?
dominium maris baltici
de har aldrig vikit eller för sin egen del tappat
Ja. Alle anderen Regeln behalten ihre Gültigkeit. Disorganisiert = kein Order.
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OK. Danke
an dieser stelle würd ich allerdings gern nochmal einhaken: sowohl gebäudecrews als auch wagen können ja gar nicht disorganized werden, können also auch ihren befehl nicht verlieren... sondern nur den extra stärkepunkt.

meine obige antwort ein klassischer fall von halbwissen :p sry
dominium maris baltici
de har aldrig vikit eller för sin egen del tappat
Hmm. Eigentlich hast du recht. Nen versemmelter Moraltest heißt ja nicht ,dass man den Order verliert, sondern nur dass man ein Moral Level fällt und DAS wiederum verursacht den Verlust des Orders. Ich frag mal nach.
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laut Regelwerk können ja sowohl Häuser als auch wagen ja aber ausdrücklich nicht im Moral Level droppen, sondern verlieren _stattdessen_ den hp.
den order müssten sie also behalten.
dominium maris baltici
de har aldrig vikit eller för sin egen del tappat
und was ich im lessons from the front grade auch noch gelesen habe (teil combat resolution), dass open order nur -1 gibt, wenn man in the open kämpft.. das open order aus build-up gibt also nicht -1. macht das angreifen von häusern von außen _noch_ härter...
dominium maris baltici
de har aldrig vikit eller för sin egen del tappat
Lessons from the front? :-D Das Ding heißt Gamers Edition :-)
Ich hab das ganze Kapitel zu Wagen umgeschrieben, so dass es hoffentlich klarer ist. Sobald ich Zuhause wieder Internet habe lade ich alles hoch.
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Ich hab mal den ganzen Regelteil über Wagons und Wagon Trains umgeschrieben und gestreamlined. Ammunition Wagon ist unverändert. Ist das so alles besser verständlich? Ergibt alles Sinn?

Wagons and Wagon Trains

Transport wagons may be used in various scenarios as a supporting element for the game.
War wagons may also appear on the battlefield in addition to transport wagons. Cossacks are the masters of fighting from such a heavily armed war wagon train (often called a „tabor“), but such tactics are also known to the forces of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Muscovy.

There are ammunition and transport wagons as well as war wagons. For simplicity all types of wagons are just called wagons in the rules unless specified otherwise.

Both transport and ammunition wagons do not have any crew – as a result they are completely resistant to any issues concerning Morale tests. War wagons have a crew and follow specific rules detailed below. All types of wagons can only be formed into Columns and can't use the Reform Special Maneuver and can't cross Obstacles. Wagons can't Pursue.

Each wagon is treated as a separate Unit requiring the issuing of an Order.
Before the battle all wagons may and war wagons must be grouped into Units – Wagon Trains – which are really Wagon Squadrons. You cannot have more Wagon Trains than Regiments (the Skirmish level is an exception where small Wagon Trains are formed – of which you cannot have more than you have Commanders. The Wagon Train is treated as a normal Unit – it may move and receive Orders (except for a Charge Order). If a war wagon in a Wagon Train is attacked the crews will defend it (see characteristics).
A Wagon Train cannot be separated voluntarily – wagons from the same Wagon Train must remain in contact until the end of the game. However, it may happen that one of the middle wagons is destroyed and the Wagon Train is divided in two. In that case the wagons must try to connect again (they may therefore only move towards one another). Only after they are connected can they operate normally.

If the Wagon Train spends 2 Special Maneuvers the wagons can be connected and prepared for defense. Thus connected wagons may move up to 5cm. Wagons connected and prepared for defense cannot March. War wagons from a Wagon Train that are not connected and prepared for defense can be captured or destroyed just like any other type of wagons as soon as the crew is killed. In Skirmish level you may not start the game with connected wagons.
In order to take over or destroy connected wagons you need to pass a Skill test. One die is rolled for every Base of the Unit in contact with wagons and war wagons left behind by their crews. Each successful test means taking over or destroying one Base of those wagons.

If the wagons have a Defense Order, friendly infantry Units can pass through it by performing a Special Maneuver without needing to make a Skill test. Else it is treated as both an Obstacle and a Unit meaning that the crossing Unit has to follow the rules for crossing an Obstacle as well as moving through a friendly Unit and you cannot shoot or charge through them. This means that if a Unit standing behind friendly wagons which received a Charge Order loses this Order (as usual when it cannot see the enemy) and receives a Move Order. It can Charge only after coming out from behind the wagons.
If the wagons don't have a crew (all wagons and crewless war wagons) you may shoot (and fight in Close Combat) the Unit defending behind the wagons. Else you must shoot (and fight in Close Combat) the wagons.
In a fight against a wagon train, each wagon Base is resolved separately – Strength points are deducted from each wagon separately. This concerns both Shooting and Close Combat. In Shooting each wagon is treated as a separate Unit concerning target selection. There is no bonus for Flanking Fire against wagons.
Wagons increase the Armor of a infantry Unit with a Defense Order behind them to 4 (if the Unit’s Armor was lower).

Charging Units treat wagons as an Obstacle. As a result cavalry lose the Impetus bonus.
Wagons without a crew (remember that transport and ammunition wagons never have a crew) do not fight back if attacked in Close Combat. A wagon train without any wagons with crew will lose the Combat automatically and the opponent may decide if he destroys the wagons or takes them over. Regardless of the decision, the enemy loses his Charge Order and may not pursue nor Charge again or fight a Second Round of Close Combat.

No Combat resolution bonuses for flank or rear attacks are considered in a Close Combat against wagons. War wagons with crew are counted as 2 Bases for Combat Resolution purposes. Crewless wagons are not counted at all. In addition, a wagon train with wagons with crew receive a +1 Combat Resolution modifier while fighting cavalry, as long as they have a Defense Order.

If infantry with a Defense Order is standing behind the wagons Fighting from behind a Wagon Train occurs (see below). If the infantry is defeated and forced to Withdraw the winner may decide to destroy or take over crewless wagons. You cannot take over a crewless wagon that belongs to a wagon train which is in contact with an enemy Unit, the wagon must be destroyed. You may destroy some wagons in a wagon train so that others cease to be in contact with the enemy and can be taken over. Regardless of the decision the enemy loses his Charge Order and may not pursue nor Charge again. The Second Round of Close Combat is not fought. Units that are not in contact with the enemy wagons may Withdraw to regroup (according to the usual Withdrawal rules). Units in contact with the enemy must Withdraw.

The winner may issue orders to the wagons as normal in the turn following their take over and treats them as his own.

If the wagons come under fire treat them as a normal Unit. There is no bonus for Flanking Fire. One wagon Base represents about 10-15 real wagons. All type of wagons are structures with 2 Strength points. Lost Strength points of the wagons cannot be restored by Reorganization. A war wagon's crew has 3 Strength points. Lost Strength points of a war wagon's crew may be Reorganized.
If a war wagon is destroyed the crew is destroyed along with it. If a wagon is destroyed remove it from play. Abandoned war wagons may be manned as described in Chapter 9 – Maneuvers.
War wagons that lost their crew cannot fight or shoot until the end of the game (unless they are manned again). They can move as normal (it is possible to find drivers but not the crews).

A wagon usually has an Armour value low enough (even though higher than normal Units) that it can be destroyed by shooting. This does not mean that musket balls can reduce a wagon to matchwood.
You must remember that most of the losses in By Fire and Sword are wounded and fleeing men. In the case of a crewless wagon this might mean that the coachmen got scared and they ran away taking the wagon, or at least the animals, with them.

A war wagon has 2 attributes: Armor (usually 13/5). The first number is for Armor against shooting, the second is the Armor of the crew. After a war wagon is hit during Shooting an Armor test should be rolled for each of the war wagon’s elements – the war wagon itself and the crew. Only the crew will be hit in Close Combat.

A war wagon fights and shoots to the sides with full strength (treat the sides of the wagon as the front of a normal Unit). A wagon cannot shoot forward or to the back. While fighting an enemy attacking the war wagon from the front or rear, the crew loses 1 die.

Wagon Trains never test Motivation – their Morale is resolved in another way. They make Morale tests as normal Units, but never Flee and are never Disorganized. Instead a failed Morale test results in the deduction of 1 Strength point of a war wagon crew (of any chosen wagon). If the test is failed by 5 or more the crew Strength is reduced by 2 points (this can be divided among the war wagons or assigned to just one of them). Similarly, in Close Combat – a Wagon Train does not Withdraw as a result of a lost Close Combat. Instead it makes a Morale test according to the above procedure.

Fighting from behind the Wagon Train
If an infantry Unit with a Defense Order is in contact with wagons Fighting from behind wagons occurs. All Bases at least partially in contact with the attacked wagon take part in this combat.
Soldiers with a Defense Order and positioned behind the wagons are treated as if they were defending an Obstacle. As a result instead of the +1 Combat Resolution Modifier that wagons receive while fighting cavalry, the usual rules for Terrain Granting Advantage should be applied.
Units cannot shoot from behind the wagons except in a situation where the infantry Unit is in contact with the wagon and both have a Defense Order. In such a situation we assume that the infantry climbs on the wagons and defends from them and the Unit may shoot as if from behind an Obstacle (with only one rank) and cannot use any Special Rules concerning shooting (except Marksmen and Rifled Barrels).

The fight is conducted as normal remembering to add the modifiers for defending an Obstacle, possible attack from the flank (not for the wagons themself), etc.

The attacker may destroy or take over the enemy wagons. Regardless of the decision made, the attacking Unit loses the Charge Order and may not Pursue, Charge or fight a Second Round of Close Combat. The Units that are not in contact with the enemy wagons may Withdraw to regroup (according to the usual Withdrawal rules). Units in contact with the enemy must Withdraw.

If the attacker loses or draws the First Round of Close Combat treat it as normal with the exception that the winner (the Wagon Train and possibly the infantry behind them) does not Pursue.
If the attacker wins the defender must Withdraw or Flee as usual.

If the attacker wins summary:

A. The infantry behind the Wagon Train Withdraws or Flees.
B. The Wagon Train rolls a Morale test to check how many additional Strength points of war wagon crew are lost.
C. Every wagon and crewless war wagon in contact with the enemy is destroyed (if the wagons are connected a Skill test is required).
D. Every attacking Unit contacted with the Wagon Train loses the Charge Order and may not Pursue or Charge. The Second Round of Close Combat is not fought. The Units that are not in contact with the enemy Wagon Train may Withdraw to regroup (according to the usual Withdrawal rules), Units in contact with the enemy must Withdraw.

When attacking a Wagon Train you attack individual wagons. Cavalry attack against a Wagon Train summary:

1. Attacking a wagon or crewless war wagon – no tests for attacks are rolled, only a Skill test for destroying a connected crewless wagon.

2. Attacking a wagon or crewless war wagon with infantry defending from behind the Wagon Train – cavalry at -2 Skill, no impetus modifier, infantry at +2 to Combat Resolution, the wagon is not counted for numerical strength and does not fight.

3. Attacking a crewed war wagon – cavalry has no impetus, the Wagon Train has +1 to Combat Resolution, the war wagon fights as normal and is counted as 2 Bases for numerical strength.

4. Attacking a crewed war wagon with infantry defending from behind the Wagon Train – cavalry has no impetus modifier, the war wagon fights as normal and is counted as 2 Bases for numerical strength, infantry fights from behind the Wagn Train, infantry and Wagon Train gain +2 to Combat Resolution.

Every attacking Base must be considered separately.

Ammunition wagons
Ammunition wagons are a special type of transport wagons and they are an integral part of various armies. They have the same base rules as all other transport wagons.

Only ammunition wagons may be used for the transport of bullets and black powder to the units fighting on the battlefield during the game. You may not take ammunition from any other type of wagon. A Unit that spends 1 Special Maneuver may take ammunition from an ammunition wagon to refill. See ammunition optional rules for details. Ammunition may be taken within a basic Move distance of such a unit. However, this is very risky as it is easy for an accidental spark to cause an explosion of the black powder store. When taking ammunition, roll a die. If you roll a "0" ("10") then there is a threat of an explosion. Roll a Skill test for the Unit which was taking ammunition (it may not be modified by a Commander). A failed test means that there was an explosion. The wagon is destroyed and each Base within 5cm of it and the Unit taking ammunition loses 1 Strength point. Units with Poor Quality Firearms or weapons with the Match rule test normally. All other units, including artillery, get a +2 modifier to their Skill roll.

Ammunition wagons may be chosen as the objective of a charge or shooting only if they are the closest target. Charge or shooting priority may not be changed from the closest unit to ammunition wagons using Command Points.
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